Light Problems- dying plants??? Is 5500K CF OK???

[cds]

Hey Guys,

Just got a few Salvias the other day- I potted them but now they are looking wilted and like they are about to die. They have been in pots for going on three days now, before which they were jam packed into a shipping container. The funny thing is that they seem to get worse when the light is on, but when I turned the light off, they got better. I know this is exactly the opposite of what is supposed to happen, so I am wondering if I got the wrong kind of light or what. It is a 100W compact florescent in the 5500K bandwidth. It is supposed to resemble sunlight, but in the blue end of the spectrum, much like a "daylight MH". It is one of those bulbs from Home Depot in the light blue-bordered white package (the daylight bulb, as opposed to the red or green (cool white/whatever)...)


This is the ghetto-ass humitent I made... However since then I raised the top of it another foot or so so the plants can get the light from above and not from the side.

Here is what the first plant looked like after a night of light:


And here is what it looked like after a few hours of dark:



As you can see, it has stood up considerably.
Also, here are the cuttings before:



And after:



It seems they are standing up as well, however the leaves on both plants and both cuttings are shriveling up and falling off- I am worried that this light is too harsh for them. Maybe it is too close also? I have read in other posts that more light is better, with regards to getting lots of leaves to grow, but it seems that my light is killing them. I realize that could just be a coincidence, since it has only been three days, but I would greatly appreciate some advice: I am keeping them at around 80-90% humid and like 70-75F, and misting frequently. I watered them once when I potted them (until it ran out the bottom) and not once since... My main questions are:

1) What kind of CF bulbs should I use. Is my 100W 5500K a good choice?

2) Is my light too close (It is now about a foot higher than you see in these pics), or too bright, and is it possibly drying out the leaves or burning them or whatever?

3) I read on another gardening site that you should put sick and dying plants in the dark to save them... Is that true with Salvia or is it the opposite?

4) Is it still possible for my plants to recover and be healthy and vibrant leaf-producing salvias?


Any help is greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and really don't want these little guys to die.

Thanks in advance,

-cds

[carnivorous4pie]

1. That light is perfect spectrum and all, I wouldn't change a thing at the moment. Position it better once the have perked right up so its more focused on them. Maybe some Mylar/ reflective film. Once your plants come right they are gonna love you for all that light!

2.Put your hand where the leaves of the plant are positioned and if you hand heats up then yes the light is too close.

3.I'm not sure of that one. I'd imagine so you could start the light off for like 10 hours a day and build it up to your wanted length of light time.

4.Hell yes!  The potted ones look like they can handle a bit more rough-housing!

If I were you I'd take a few leaves off to restore the turgor pressure then your plant should stand straight up. How many hours is your light on per day at the moment?

[JustAnotherRegularGuy]

Here is what I would do. First thing you HAVE to cut off some bottom leaves to restore hydrostatic balance in the plants. That is why they are wilting over and is your biggest problem at the moment. Once you cut the bottom leaves off the plant it will stand back upright and be able to supply the upper leaves with nutrients. Start out with cutting the bottom two leaves.....wait 12 hours and see if it perks up. If not, cut the next set of leaves, and repeat the process until the plant perks up or you only have the top two leaves left. Because the plants are in the state they are in the light may be a bit bright at the moment, but once they start to acclimate to their new surroubdings the light will be perfect. My suggestion would be to move the light a little further away from them for a little while. Once they are getting better, then move it right back down to where you had it. Your Salvias still have a good chance of surviving and I give them a 99% chance of becoming big beautiful plants in the near future!

The humidity is good, but don't mist them so much. Once a day is more than enough. In my opinion the plants like high humidity instead of being misted.

Welcome to the forums and good luck! Keep us posted.

PS You may want to put an air stone in the bottom of your glasses for your unrooted clones. It will help them a lot. I have a guide on how to do this here:
http://www.salviasource.org/forum/hydroponics/yet-another-2-liter-dwc-system-by-jarg/0/

JARG

[Jupe]

I would go even further, using plant pic #2 as reference: cut off all leaves which don't re-hydrate, or are shriveled and brown top AND bottom

cut off top stem if it doesn't regain turgor as well, or shrivels, its just dragging plant down........ neither shriveled leaves nor stem will recover......concentrate on those nice lower nodes, they are fat, stem is fat... roots are good underneith, they just are not working yet, so they WILL sacrifice all unfunctional top parts, in order to keep alive.

In slow acting problems, lower leaves are dropped, by in crisis, top nodes goes first, and plant saves bottom nodes.

If plant stands up with turgor, ignore all this, but it looks like you have heat burn from shipping, combined with being pushed a little to hard.

Salvia sometimes is like trying to grow that wilted  piece of celery you found on the floor ....it has to be done very slowly, and very carefully.....once it takes.....No Worries, 'cept finding folks to donate leaf to!!! 




back off from  too muchwarmth(60-70F is better now than 70-80F)) and lights for a week or so,  and make sure plants get regular fresh new air.

They perked up at night because they weren't working at night (chlorophyll)....

Let them rest, until strong, and then gradually ramp your system back up....which looks good by the way, just remember to get some venting, lack or air movement and "over-humidity" is worse than wind and drier conditions (within limits)....Happy Growing.

[darkshadow]

wow that is byfar the strangest set up ive seen yet but if it works it works

[cds]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. BTW carnivore I am giving them about 8 hrs currently. Should I do less until they get better? Also lots more leaves have fallen off- some by themselves but most when I barely touch them. Doesn't Salvia get it's moisture through it's leaves? Won't is not be able to get moisture if all the leaves fall off (which they have already on one of the cuttings)?

jupe- What do you all recommend as far as humidity? You warned against over-humidity... I have been trying to keep it between 90-100 because the manual they came with said they have 100% humidity in their natural habitat, but IDK if thats too much or not. Should the humidifier be set on high mist or what- it's kind of crappy and it's really old so when I turn the mist intensity down I think it doesn't work because the humidity level goes down too even though I don't touch the humidity setting... Is visible mist good for them or not? Also does anyone know if high humidity/mist will cause the electrical connections in the light socket and adapter/plug thing to rust or short???

regularguy- I have moved the light about a foot higher when I extended the height of the tent... I will post pics when I get home.

Also, what kind of fresh air are we talking about? Is just opening the front of the tent to look at them a couple times a day enough, or do I need some kind of fan or something? And wouldn't that drastically bring down the humidity...

And dark- what exactly do you recommend I add to my setup?

Thanks Again- I'll be back with some pics later...

-cds







Ok, here is what they look like now (brace yourselves, they are pretty pathetic, lol)

Plant 1:




Plant2:




And the cuttings:





And I also modified my humitent so the light is above the plants- not beside them, and so I can put all 4 on the same level...



I am thinking about getting one more light of the same kind and then putting them evenly spaced... After the plants get better and can benefit from more light, that is.

...

If you take a closer look at plant1...



You see the very top excluding that dying leaf (the little nub thing), since that is already brown, should I cut off the very tip so a healthy leaf can grow? And if so, should I do it above or below that very topmost node (I assume a node is the part where the leaves come out of, right?)...


Then if you look at the bottom of plant1:



Where the little leaves are turning brown araound the edges... Should I expect them to fall off too? Is it true that Salvias usually loose all their leaves when they are moved from different humidity zones or whatever?

Ok, and on cutting1:



Should I cut the top off too since both baby leaves are dead (brown)?

...

BTW this is what the roots on plant1 looked like 4 days ago, if it helps...



Thanks Again,

-cds

[darkshadow]

i didnt say add to it i said it looks odd and i think you maynot be giving them enough light time, mines doing well and it gets about 10-12 hours of light i would also try using filtered water if you use town water cause the clorine will kill them

[JustAnotherRegularGuy]

Salvia does not primarily rely on air moisture for it's water supply. It brings it in through the roots just like any other normal plant. Even if all your leaves fall off and it already has a root ball, it should come back given the right environment. People have grown Salvia successfully in as low as 20%-30% humidity on here. Now if all your leaves fall off the clones without roots, they might not make it. I didn't realize you had a humidifier in that setup. Humidifiers put out hot steam which can kill your plants. A much better way to keep humidity up is to cover each plant with a cut off two liter bottle. Just mist the inside of the bottle and not the plant. Misting the plant is overrated and it does more harm than good in my opinion. Take the two liter off once a day to replenish the air supply. Or you can leave the cap off the two liter, but you will have to mist the inside more frequently then. As Jupe said, getting air movement for fresh air around the leaves is more important than a stale but humid environment. And lastly, I wouldn't use the humidifier at all. I would be worried that it could short something out using that close to light sockets.

JARG

[cds]

Actually it's an ultrasonic humidifier, the mist it puts out is cool. Lots of humidifiers are the hot kind though, easily confused; I should have mentioned that. I was worried about the shorts too, but I took care of that by putting the humidifier on the bottom shelf and all the plants on the top shelf, since the shelves have holes on them, the bottom chamber gets full of mist and the top chamber stays relatively clear, but just enough humidity diffuses upward so that the humidity level stays around 85%. Unfortunately the plants are a little too big for a 2 liter... BTW I just updated my last post with pics.

Thanks Again

-cds