Salvia and Depression Controversy

[Paradoxic]

Recently a teen named Bret Chidester committed suicide and his parents, among others, attribute this to him smoking Salvia Divinorum. The reason being that he wrote a couple essays describing his experiences with Salvia and, more notably, that he learned that human life was pointless. Later, his father found him dead after coming home on January 23, 2006.

His parents claimed that after he started smoking Salvia they noticed he seemed somewhat depressed and angry. After reading his essays about his Salvia use they decided that it at least contributed to his suicide/depression. However, at the time it was reported that he was also taking Isotretinoin, a strong acne medication that has been linked to depression and suicide (read more about Isotretinoin). However, there is a bit of controversy concerning whether or not he was taking it.  

Despite the more seemingly obvious reason for his suicide, his parents took action to have Salvia Divinorum outlawed in Delaware and on May, 02 2006 a bill was signed outlawing Salvia divinorum. View the full text of the law here.

Here are some news articles about it:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-02-salvia_x.htm
http://www.nbc10.com/news/8628557/detail.html

[BritvaCharlie]

It pretty much makes me sad, the massive emotion involved in this, that is.
I feel bad for his parents, but I think they are also using salvia as a scapegoat to their own discrepancies as parents.
However, many people have reported anti depressant qualities in salvia, and I have personally felt salvia has always brightened the world up for a little while afterwards...

Also, I think people need to realize that just because something is a prescription, it is not necessarily safe.
Needless to say, I'm pissed off that it has brought about the prohibition of such a wonderful plant.

[DrYRHead]

Depressed youths  :cry:  under 18 years old do not fair well even on Pharmaceutical anti-depressants like Prozac. Even that drug can give them suicidal thought, so much for SSRIs being anti-depressants for minors.

[DrYRHead]

As I recall, I read something about his mother, at one point, made a comments about him trying SD because he was depressed to begin with. It seems that he had a history of depression. Even if he had not taken any drugs/substances, the acne-med, SD or Absinthe liqueur, he may very well have taken his own life anyway.  

[MstryShovel]

it is a sad state of affairs. I cant claim to know much about sally cause i just started cultivating my relationship with her, so to speak but i do have alot to say about depression as a child.

I was one of them. I suffered from depression from aroudn 14 untill, well now, and im 22. I feel i have successfully delt with my problem and have more correctly come to terms with it and myself.   I went to therapists from 16 untill around 19 off and on throughout those times (usualy 6 mos spans) I was mildly suicidal and incredibly reclusive...
The only problem though is that through my experience and talking to others Ive found that most chronicaly depressed people are simply Smart, or at least have a high intelegence level and Think alot.  in my experience i was first ostricised by the "popular crowd" for being smart, you remember how middle school ect goes. and then when i wouldnt accept things as they were i sepparated myself  more which lead to more and more problems, its a common story i know. but what im trying to get at here is that much of the time suicides and what not can be totaly helped by parents taking responcibility and time for thier child instead of Dropping some pill on them.  Like Tom Cruise said, anti-depressants are a hoax all you need is streangh in will , and whatnot. This i titaly belive but for a child to pull warrior-like strength out of the ether is damn near impossible.
anyways Ill end up rambling like this for pages.
Revolution! Revolution! Revolution!

its just sad, like you said when the parents use ignorace and fear as a tool to blame ... its like bevis and butt-head not being able to say FIRE any more... just cause some parent never paid attn to their kid and dropped them in front of a TV for 12 hours a day, some old lady gets thier house burned down

FUCK

[Paradoxic]

Thats quite interesting, how do you think you might have reacted to Salvia at that age?

Keep on rambling, thats what these forums are for If you need to start a new topic, do it...if you want. Funny you use the word ether, havent heard that discredited scientific theory used in a while. I probably wouldn't have even known what that meant if it weren't for a random journey through the realms of Wikipedia.

But yeah I agree with you and Tom, I dont believe anti-depressants will really help you in the end. They are only engineering happiness, real happiness is something you must achieve with your own mind. Unfortunately it seems more and more people are choosing the artificial easy escape, I've even heard they are designing pills for ordinary, non-depressed people to use just to feel happier. Now look I'm ranting too, but I will stop myself as well. Maybe I'll continue this later on but right now I am out of time.

Lets keep this stuff coming =)

[Crispy]

The only problem though is that through my experience and talking to others Ive found that most chronicaly depressed people are simply Smart, or at least have a high intelegence level and Think alot.  in my experience i was first ostricised by the "popular crowd" for being smart, you remember how middle school ect goes. and then when i wouldnt accept things as they were i sepparated myself  more which lead to more and more problems, its a common story i know. but what im trying to get at here is that much of the time suicides and what not can be totaly helped by parents taking responcibility and time for thier child instead of Dropping some pill on them.

I went through a lot of depression as a kid up until the age of 25 where it started tapering down quite a bit.
I was one of the "smart kids" too, I hate sports and I am a musician (at least I wasnt in marching band!)

What I have always attributed my "escape from depression" to are two things: simply growing older and learning life is what you make it, and weed.

One of the reasons I started looking for "legal drugs' (which eventually led me to Salvia) was the need to cut back on the weed.  I have been smoking weed pretty much daily for about 8 years, except for this one part of my life, I am a completely law abiding kinda guy.  I don't need the paranoia caused by the War on Drugs in my life so I would like to be able to replace at least some of the pot with other things that are legal.  

I am also one of the persons that is under the impression that man made anti-depressant drugs are prescribed too much and probably do more bad than good.

[Paradoxic]

Interesting that you say weed helped you out of depression, because usually it seems to do the opposite. But then again all people will react differently. One of my old friends became severly depressed from what I am certain was mostly due to weed. Or it least would never have gotten any where near as bad as it did without weed. He became completely anti-social and at the peak of it, before he was hauled off, he was spending his entire life playing Warcraft and sleeping. And when I say entire life I mean it: got up at 2pm, took a shower and played till 4am (at night), then repeated the cycle. At this point he only smoked to go to sleep because weed would only make him feel worse about his life. Now this is extreme, but I think it should illustrate that weed, like any other drug, must be taken seriously despite how harmless you may think it is.

I think its a very good decision for you to stop smoking daily and attempt to use something like Salvia instead. However, again you should be careful not to abuse. Even though I too smoke regularly (I try to keep it down to a few times a week), just like I am against the daily use of pharmacuticals to combat depression I also think that daily use of weed will probably do you more bad than good, especially if you are using it to escape something like depression. Thats just my 2 cents.

And Crispy, one more thing. You live in Georgia, right. Georgia is one of the states trying to ban Salvia so you are in the best position to help fight against a ban. Would you consider attending a public hearing to oppose a ban. I dont believe it has gotten to the point where they would have a hearing, but I'll be sure to keep you updated on that. Also if you would like I could write up a short speech, or help you write one, for you to present at the hearing. If anything has been directly effective in stopping a Salvia  ban its attending a hearing. Check out what happened in Maine:
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law_article8.shtml

[Crispy]

I think its a very good decision for you to stop smoking daily and attempt to use something like Salvia instead. However, again you should be careful not to abuse. Even though I too smoke regularly (I try to keep it down to a few times a week), just like I am against the daily use of pharmacuticals to combat depression I also think that daily use of weed will probably do you more bad than good, especially if you are using it to escape something like depression. Thats just my 2 cents.

Well, I would like to cut back for a few reasons- mainly because it is illegal and I don't like to buy it. Another is that I do get a bit lazy and absent minded at times.  I smoke pretty much on a daily basis, but on average only a small bowel in the evening to "wind down".  I am in a few bands and all the members are confirmed potheads, we smoke a lot before,during and after performances.
 As for escaping depression- I have no idea- I have been literally smoking for so long that I have no idea what life would be like without it, I have gone at the most 2 weeks without weed in the last 7-8 years. I got depressed during those dry periods but that may be just because of a mental dependence.

And Crispy, one more thing. You live in Georgia, right. Georgia is one of the states trying to ban Salvia so you are in the best position to help fight against a ban. Would you consider attending a public hearing to oppose a ban. I dont believe it has gotten to the point where they would have a hearing, but I'll be sure to keep you updated on that. Also if you would like I could write up a short speech, or help you write one, for you to present at the hearing. If anything has been directly effective in stopping a Salvia  ban its attending a hearing. Check out what happened in Maine:
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law_article8.shtml

Yes, I am in Georgia. I checked and only saw the attempt by one congressman last March, but nothing since then.
Even that bill allowed for possession and landscaping use.  
I would fight any ban, though I am a terrible speech giver!

[DrYRHead]

Is the climate nice enough in Georga to grow SD out side for landscaping purposes?  :roll:

[Sam]

If they want to ban the use of sd than they should ban the use of alcohol its as simple as that. How many people have died and suffered because of alcohol? But if they ban alcohol than they would have to personally sacrifice something they enjoy or face becoming a criminal. I feel for that boy that took his own life, its really sad. Everybody here knows more about why the boy took his own life than the parents do. I think the parents should have a meeting with the green mother and open their eyes. If the parents must lay blame than I’m sorry to say this but the only person that could logically be blamed is the kid.

And speaking of Warcraft chec this out.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2005/6/21/547
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Two-Fanatic-World-of-Warctaft-Gamers-Have-Died-Becouse-Of-WoW-11821.shtml
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/18/parents-suing-blizzard-for-world-of-warcraft-addiction/

The more laws we make the more criminals we create.

[Paradoxic]

Yeah I heard about those people who died playing video games, mostly in Asia. I would say its equally ridiculous to be outlawing Salvia as it would to outlaw a video game. However, it seems people are pushing to do both while alcohol remains a relatively acceptable way to have a good time. In the case of alcohol though its legality has to do with tradition, not logic.

[Sam Fisher]

They can’t ban alcohol because the people doing the banning would have to make personal sacrifices or risk becoming criminal. And I don’t think it’s the criminal part they are worried about. When alcohol was illegal government officials were still using it. Try to imagine a police or border patrol barbeque without beer. You know the barbeques at your local park where the men are getting drunk picking fights and acting like jackasses. Anybody who says they are drug free better include alcohol in my opinion. Hell SD could be a cure or treatment for addiction for all we know, if it’s made illegal we may never find out. Ok I’m done venting, thanks for posting this article so I could respond to it.

[Crispy]

Is the climate nice enough in Georga to grow SD out side for landscaping purposes?  :roll:

Hmm... maybe if I moved my lawn indoors? otherwise, no...

[DrYRHead]

Lawn indoors, LOL.    I think it would be much easier to keep Sally in a pot, and then move her inside during bad weather.