dmt

[skagardener]

well ive looked at trying dmt, it sounds pretty trippy. psychotria viridis looks to be the natural source for this, i am under the assumption that it is used in ayahuasca brews, so does this mean that this substance must be used with an maoi to work? i really would like to stay away from maoi's because i have to stay away from substances that could have an adverse affect on my mental status. ( i am bipolar, and am on anti seizure medacines to help stabilize my mood , so i have to be careful what i take in ) would i be able to get effects from this particular plant, or would there be a better source without using an maoi. 

[Paradoxic]

Yeah you do not want to be taking an MAOI when you are using any kind of prescription for mental issues, thats a potentially deadly combo. For DMT to to work orally you do need some kind of MAOI because DMT is deactivated without it. However, you can smoke it to achieve effects without an MAOI.

If you have bipolar you may want to avoid using DMT because even in a normal person the experience can be overly intense and quite negative. Having a mental condition would make a negative experience much more likely and it is also makes it more likely to have much more severe (and possibly long-lasting) consequences.

Whatever you do, you should read more about DMT, its a very interesting substance:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/

[MstryShovel]

from what i understand, the maoi is just a vehicle for the dmt, as it is broken down easily by the stomach when ingesting. most reports ive heard of smoking dmt. also DMT is found in every living thing on the planet, it just depends on its concentration. you can extract dmt from grass clippings, but it would take ALOT of grass clippings

[skagardener]

thanks guys, i figured the maoi would open the pathway for the dmt to work. guess ill just stick to what i love the most. Salvia 

[Synchronium]

Just for the record, MAOIs (or MAO inhibitors) are compounds that inhibit the enzyme MonoAmine Oxidase (MAO). This enzyme gets rid of MonoAmine neurotransmitters such as dopamine, 5-HydroxyTryptamine (serotonin) and adrenaline. If the MAO enzymes break these chemicals down, inhibiting this action means the neurotransmitters are around for longer, and so increase their effect.

Inhibiting this enzyme also prevents the breakdown of DMT, so the same amount of DMT is around for longer and can exert more of an effect.

[skagardener]

yeah i really dont want to mess with anything that lowers any kind of chemical levels in my brain, and from what i understand it kind of dialates (just a phrase, i dont mean literally) a certain receptor in your brain which kinda allows some chemicals to get into certain areas of the brain...am i correct or wrong?? anyway ive also heard it can let in things that dont need to be there ( like certain substances ) and it could cause death if it is the right substance.

[DrYRHead]

You can find several different plant sources for DMT listed on the Erowid link Paradoxic  posted. Mimosa hostilis (Jurema); [ http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa.shtml ] root bark is a popular source. DMT has been extracted from such by many out there, and the base is smokable. 

[Synchronium]

yeah i really dont want to mess with anything that lowers any kind of chemical levels in my brain, and from what i understand it kind of dialates (just a phrase, i dont mean literally) a certain receptor in your brain which kinda allows some chemicals to get into certain areas of the brain...am i correct or wrong?? anyway ive also heard it can let in things that dont need to be there ( like certain substances ) and it could cause death if it is the right substance.

Err, not quite. I'll try and sum it up a bit.

A neurotransmitter is like a chemical signal in your body. In  this case we're talking about the brain specifically, but they're in use all over your body. There are a number of different neurotransmitters, too, and one particular type are called monoamines (related to their chemical structure). That's that out of the way...

In a normal (un drugged ) body, for a signal to be effective, it's signalling molecule can only last in the body for a short amount of time, otherwise it would always be there, and the signal would alwayse be on and so it couldn's signal anything (imagine morse code where you're just holding down the buzzer). So, if the body is going to send and receive signals with neurotransmitters, it seeds a way to get rid of them once one nerve has sent the signal and another nerve has received it, and this is where MonoAmineOxidase (MAO) enzymes come in. They seek out and destroy molecules of neurotransmitter that have been released from the nerve cells and get rid of them (if they're in the monoamine neurotransmitter family).

So, where do drug come in? If a drug acts on your nerves in such a way that it causes neurotransmitter release, chances are that signal is going to make you feel good, or trippy or something. That signal will more than likely be a monoamine neurotransmitter which will be sent and then destroyed (on and off again shortly after). So if we inhibit these MAO enzymes that naturally destroy a signal, they will no longer work. So that "good" signal you've induced with whatever drug will not get broken down as fast, so it will exist or be "on" for much longer. If it's not evident by now, this means that you need less of the drug in the first place to produce the same kind of extended signal as though you just took loads more drug, or it will amplify any weak signal from a drug, making it much stronger (ie higher).

To summarise then, the MAO Inhibitors "boost" the desired signal brought about by another drug.

That's why you wouldn't take JUST an MAO inhibitor to get high, as there's no other signal from another drug to be amplified.

Hope that helps!

[skagardener]

thanks, i never really looked up on that, but i kinda got little clues from reading around. also you seem to know your stuff, like i said about the medication, im on trileptal and i have yet to do salvia since i was put on it, are these two a bad combo? or is it ok?

[MstryShovel]

Syncronium,
thats intresting, would taking a maoi while smoking sd make it more potent/long lasting, or would it need to be another type of inhibitor, just thinking like ingesting the SD leaves with an maoi to amplify/extend

[DrYRHead]

One has found that the interaction between the MAOI of the harmala alkaloid group interacts with SD in a synegenic way, and the effect of the SD was lengthened. However, that was with an oral dose of MAOI, and a quided dose of SD.
 
One has been dreaming about a S. rue seed extract laced batch of SD leaf as an incense. However, the time has not been quite right yet for such. One may post a report about such some day.

[Synchronium]

skagardener: Trileptal (or oxcarbazepine) aims to slow down the firing of those signals (for anyone that's interested, it does this by sodium channel inhibition, like the more popular derivative Carbamazepine (Tegretol)) that I talked about previously. If an MAOI tends to enhance those signals, while your anticonvulsant drugs tend to slow down these signals, I predict one of three things will happen: The MAOI will cancel out the effects of the oxcarbazepine you're on, meaning you might be likely to do something that drug is supposed to prevent (siezure, mood swings, etc). OR, it might (and this is what I reckon) do nothing, since a signal amplifier (the MAOI) is no good if the wire (neurone) the signal travels along is broken (Na+ channels inhibited).

Alternatively, the MAOI and oxcarbazepine might have no effect on each other as they work on totaly different pathways. I don't know anywhere near enough about it to say one way or the other.


MstryShovel: No idea! I'd need to find out more about what receptors salvia works with (kappa opioid?) and what the neurotransmitters in question were.

[skagardener]

o no, i am not going to take the chance of doing an maoi just for an experience, i meant salvia and trileptal. you are blowing my mind with this stuff, do you have any collage degrees, and if so in what, after i get done with my bachelor of computer science i would like to go back and get another degree in something that has to do with psychoactive substances, brains reaction to chemicals, just a wide variety.

[Synchronium]

I'm in my second year doing a degree in Medical Science.

It's fascinating!

[Paradoxic]

This stuff is incredibly interesting, you gotta wonder where it going to take us. I was reading about these new drugs that are being developed for normal people to take just to feel good. It will be marketed to the general population without any kind of disorder simply just to feel better on a daily basis. The question is will these drugs actually make you feel better overall? I think that happiness is relative and that in order to truely be happy you have to also experience the other side, sadness. If people take drugs like this I think what will end up happening is people will enter a state of what you may call 'soma' where they are essentially zoned out from everything and don't really feel happy or sad, just neutral and unemotional all the time. Synchronium, do you happen to know anything about these new drugs?

Also I had another question. I know that people report a mild psychedelic state when they take MAOIs like S. rue. So how does an MAOI induce this? Or do you think there are other chemicals in the plant responsible for the effect?