Mazatec Knowledge

[strgzr]

After each session I can't help but think about the Mazatec Indians hundreds of years ago sitting and quietly smoking in the forest. The only one's in the world (I presume) who had this plant. We who grew up in the "heyday" years of lsd  thought we were pioneers of a sort. We were just "Johnny come lately's". Those Indians way back when had been to the other side of reality centuries before us! I wonder if the Mazatec wrote down any of their experiences with Salvia. Does anyone know of any original Mazatec writings on this subject that have been translated to English? I would be interested to know their personal feelings about what they experienced.

[Paradoxic]

Well the problem exists for many Native American peoples that since they are typically, if not universally, oral cultures. I am pretty sure there was no written language for any native groups before the arrival of Europeans. They passed down knowledge orally by tradition. This is one of the major reasons we know so little about most all the Native Americans. There are some, although very limited, sources of information about the Mazatec Indians. Some people have collected information about the Mazatecs and written books about it, but I dont know of any off hand...maybe someone else does...?

In any case they undoubtedly have tremendous wisdom about this plant as they have used it for centuries and it is quite sad that we will probably never resurrect the vast majority of that knowledge. Oh, and by they way, they didnt smoke Salvia they made oral infusions which are considerably less intense than a smoked extract. So most likely the level of intensity experienced by us alien westerners is considerably higher than the levels achieved by the plant's native users. It is also notable that the shamans were for the most part the only ones who used Salvia. As far as I know the other Mazatecs would only use Salvia as a medicine and only under the direction of a shaman.

[DrYRHead]

Actually the Mazatec traditionally quided SD, and there is no record of them having smoked it.

As for a written alphabet, the Mazatec may not have had one. However, the Maya did have one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_script

[robinhoody]

they didnt smoke Salvia they made oral infusions which are considerably less intense than a smoked extract. So most likely the level of intensity experienced by us alien westerners is considerably higher than the levels achieved by the plant's native users.

True, they didn't smoke it, but I don't think that necessarily means the experiences were always less intense.

Slower to come on, certainly, but I think oral ingestion had the ability to produce similarly profound experiences as with smoked extracts.

If you look at Kat Harrison's healing ceremony, for instance, it's quite clear that she had a remarkably profound/intense experience, and it was all orally ingested. She may not have had the same rushing sensation that often accompanies smoked extracts, but I think the "end result" was of comparable intensity.

I'm sure not all oral experiences were always like that, but I'm also not sure that extracts are always more intense than oral. It's certainly easier to achieve more intense experiences via extracts, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do so orally

[penumbra]

There was an article in GQ a few months ago about traditional mazatec salvia ceremonies. Apparently fits of laughter were considered to be a bad sign. Those who acquiesced to feelings of uncontrollable and unexplainable giddiness were victims of "the madness".
A contemporary shaman was also quoted in this article saying that salvia, the botanical embodiment of the virgin of guadalupe (?) is angered when smoked. Chewing a quid is seen as the most respectful way to harness salvia's effects.

[Paradoxic]

Hmmm, thats quite interesting, but it definitely makes sense. I've always thought smoking seemed to be a somewhat unfortunate way to use Salvia.

Do you have the link to that article by any chance?

[penumbra]

http://www.maps.org/media/salvia_story-final.pdf

its a pdf file and youre going to have to zoom in
but this is it


heres an HTML link: http://www.maps.org/sys/nq.pl?id=1365

[strgzr]

There was an article in GQ a few months ago about traditional mazatec salvia ceremonies. Apparently fits of laughter were considered to be a bad sign. Those who acquiesced to feelings of uncontrollable and unexplainable giddiness were victims of "the madness".
A contemporary shaman was also quoted in this article saying that salvia, the botanical embodiment of the virgin of guadalupe (?) is angered when smoked. Chewing a quid is seen as the most respectful way to harness salvia's effects.

The only time I could feel laughter coming on it seemed like it was associated with the weird guilt feelings I experienced. I purchased some leaf but it is very dry.Is re-hydrating it recommended before chewing it? Or is chewing the dried leaves the way to go? I don't want to piss the lady off!

[strgzr]

The only time I could feel laughter coming on it seemed like it was associated with the weird guilt feelings I experienced. I purchased some leaf but it is very dry.Is re-hydrating it recommended before chewing it? Or is chewing the dried leaves the way to go? I don't want to piss the lady off!

tried a quid that I soaked in water and man this stuff tastes bad! if this is the embodiment of the virgin of guadalupe she must have been very bitter! Smoking is definitely the way to go in my opinion!

[Daggster]

I´ve also read some Mazatec shaman say something like smoking Salvia is like smoking your children, but how would it be better to chew your children?  I don´t think she is angry for smoking her leaves, I feel growing and smoking her is some kind of symbiosis, she benefits from helping us being nurtured and spread worldwide!

[JDogHerman]

you must have reverence for the plant. She grew to help us and we must strive to pay her back

[MstryShovel]

you must have reverence for the plant. She grew to help us and we must strive to pay her back

yeah exactly, plants know thier place, a bean sprout knows it makes beans and some or most will be eaten, we are the assholes who think the plants "owe" us the food. Harmony friend, harmony. something to strive for at least.